Would you consider moving due to the outcome of the US Presidental election? Where would you go and why?
65You may call me unpatriotic, but in reality it's nationalism that we embrace in the election!
I'm going to make this answer brief and simple, since many jingoistic 'patriots' will consider me anti-american. In reality, I'm not at all anti-American! I am anti-progressive in the sense that where this country is headed is the antithesis of what the founding fathers intended.
First, look at the dictatorial presence of the current administration, with FISA being the next leap into fascism that country is embracing. Unchecked, unbalanced, illegal wiretapping is now available to all future presidents, and this is a major detriment to the individual citizen and their rights.
Also, look at the reality of Congress: it no longer truy represents the people. Senators son't listen to us, I've written them before to ask them to pass certain laws and it never got read. The reality is we've idolized political figures and we're trusting morons in D.C. to know how we each want to live! Not to mention trying to impress lobbyists is far more ideal for the money-grubbing Washington politician.
Lastly, with the poor president comes an even more bogus congress. They pass laws we don't ask for, they make laws we don't want. They ban drilling and then allow drilling, when the general consensus of the american populace has not really changed it's stance (regardless of what the polls say, the stats are hardly believable).
In the end, whatever your political stance, you will find a different form of government elsewhere. I'm not saying America is terrible as a government entity, but let's face it:
The more annoying thing to me is the shallow minds of the overall population. We idolize celebrity, we idolize politicians, we idolize money...to the extent of a great fault. It's no wonder we have a high suicide rate (in the late 90s the rate was 1.3% of all deaths, and that number is low because many suicides are recorded as accidents). I find myself battling more and more the entity of the American Dream more than the actual government, but the government is not helping that dream either. I don't want to get rich quick, thank you. I want to see a nation where every man is truly and unequivocally EQUAL, not this bull that we've been fed for the last 50 years. Men to Women, Black to White, blue collar to white collar, socialism to capitalism, etc. etc. etc. I'm seeing a nation without an identity and without a cause, intruding in the affairs of other nations because we want to ignore our own problems.
I would gratefully move to a simple place...Newfoundland, Ireland, Wales...simplicity is the name of the game for me. Do they have similar problems? Of course, we're all people. But after visiting places like these mentioned above I notice some key things about the people:
1) they have culture grounded in centuries of traditions
2) they dislike their government, just like Americans do (but they actually make enough noise to be heard--see Scotland)
3) they love family and their hobbies--they leave work at work and do not live defined by the mighty dollar...*erhem*, pound, if you would.
4) deep musical tradition runs through the veins of most european people, and it's something I truy do love to the utmost extent. Americans consider American Idol to be musical tradition, which really is a waste of my time.
Presidents are not the only problem: the people often determine the president and therefore I'd move because the PEOPLE presented more deterring results in my mind than the leader chosen by them, even if the leader doesn't listen to us. It's all very confusing to me how a nation that was once so well grounded (and not so different from england) became SO different and off the wall in less than 300 years.
I'll take identity, culture, voice, and tradition over technology and enslavement to the machines of big business any day. After all, in that sense, the president is just another gear to grind in the master clockwork of this messed-up nation.
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Why thank you! I was afraid of the response (mostly from you since this is a request-answer hub) but I'm glad you appreciated this post :) I hope others have the same sentiment.
NO.....
There we go, that's the great American sentiment I expected to receive.
You sound a little dismal as if everything is over. FDR said "In order to rule a Republic, one must understand the minds that created it." Many men and women have gave their lives to uphold the principles that we hold dearly: our freedoms and the inalienable opportunity to create your dream. Many of our Presidents have been assassinated for trying to expand that dream to all the classes.
As far as this election is concerned, it has been a major piece of crap production produced by Axelrod and company. Their major flaw was that George Soros selected a straw man (Barry) for his candidate against a proven warrior.
In an interesting turn of events, (which I predicted astrologically) the last week of July was the end of the media honeymoon with Barry soetoro aka/ Barack Hussein Obama aka/Barry Dunaham. whoever he is and from whatever country he is from, and whatever his citizenship is or is not.
Ludacris sealed Barry's fate the other day, with his horrible lyrics and for that John McCain will be laughing all the way to his own inauguration, unless the DNC steps in and puts Hillary in the nomination.
So it's not over until its' over.
Winston Churchil once said:"Never murder your opponent who is committing suicide."
Muhammad Ali regained his heavyweight championship by taking pummeling from a younger George Foreman using his famous "Rope-a-dope" technique and, after draining all of George's energy, knocked him out in the 8th (1974, Zaire)
This is a great country based on strong principles.
While some may see it as gloom and doom (I get that a lot with my postings sometimes too). The reality is that I have a very young daughter and I look at the US and it is just not the same as it was years ago. We spend so much time trying to survive chasing a dollar be it to advance or just break even that we are losing some of ourselves in the process. I wish we could go back to a little easier time whent things were more simple and I could allow my daughter to play in the neighborhood till the street lights come on, and not be tied to my phone all the time for fear of losing a job. The country is great, I just feel that some (not all but the ones I am talking about are the loudest and get the most from the system because they know how to use it) have taken the principles of this great country and warped them to fit their own personal gain. And in following with the principles those of us who do believe continue to give and give and give and soon there will be nothing left. Still I do believe that here is the only place I want to live for now...
To "v": I'm sorry if it sounded dismal...I live a rather lower-class lifestyle by defaut because this 'make or break' dream is truly a lie; not everyone can make good money, and it's not a mindset. I know a ton of brilliant people with awesome talent and honed skills who have never quite made it big. Then there's the opposite, like Paris Hilton, a talentless twat who has never done anything to benefit society. President or not, congress or not, money-run America is so obsessed with technology and business progression, aka GLOBALISATION, that we've forgotten the little man who makes life simple and enjoyable. Technological progression is NOT good progressivism, it's idolisation of the inevitable overtaking of mankind by the machine (see Postman's TECHNOPOLY).
Blogger: My above statement inadvertently agreed with you. I live in America because
- I was born here
- It's too hard to leave here
- I inevitably believe it's good to start a family here
So in a sense, I will probably be here for life.
You were born here, it's too hard to leave, it's good to start a family here. So, then was this column just a moment of bad-mood irritability...are you experiencing a male PMS moment ? Just teasing, a bit.
BUT this country soooo huge, that I firmly believe that there are places here that within the USA you might truly enjoy the sense of 'peace' that you seem to feel you could only experience somewhere beyond our borders. I don't know where you're living...but there are still many of communities, even whole counties where life is still simple...where children still play out in the front yard, where neighbors still know each other by name and get together for cook outs and coffee socials. NOW, about the 'drilling or no drilling.' My advice would be to 'implode' a bit...turn off the news...for a week, a month...relax. Pay attention to your spouse, your children, your parents. Count your blessings. Relax. What? the same guys won't be running for prez in 30 days? Drilling will have been fully decided withOUT your turmoil over this issue? Truly...if you have this many gripes about the nation you live in...then you're not focusing on what's truly important...your loved ones. Enjoy them fully, and when you look around after a conscious amount of time...relaxing...you might find these issues don't disturb you so much.
This is NOT to suggest you disengage from citizenship! Only that you allow a momentary but definite break from the incessant 24 hour news cycle, which must be fueling your irritablity. Again, relax.
May your next hub be filled with the sharing of the blessings in your life! BEST!
Oh I totally agree...the problem for me at the moment is the affordability of these places. It's as if the government doesn't want us to be happy and posrperous, you know? It's also a mix of my frustration with the country itself combined with the lack of contentment with pop-culture and it's enormous vicegrip on our current and future generation...but that exists everywhere anymore ;)
Thanks for the comment!
vara...AMEN. we all are discouraged, but let the best of us stick around to solve the problems...not escape them. My dear ancestors lived thru horrible times,. the trek west to settle and see a dream come true for them and their posterity, the depression, the conflict of the 60's -- count your blessings young man, and help us correct what's wrong...when you count what's right, you will train your mind to see it ...and you will honor those in the past who gave all of that to you.
I know you mean well....but you are running from somewhere to nowhere. If America doesn't make it...neither will the world...you can mark my words on that. We are not everything, but we are behind everything...the world is connected like dominoes...one falls they all fall.
America won't fall, I am not strong enough, but I am one. And one and one make 2, and 2 and 2 make 4. Let's stand with America, not against her.
I wouldn't say the world requires America. The world is so globally connected that something would clean up the mess and it would take care of itself quite nicely. The Romans were probably under the same delusion and the Germans, Saxons, and Franks cleaned up the empire and made what would become modern Europe, and I'm more than 100% certain that (since every empire falls) America will one day not exist and therefore will be collected by other entities. That much is for certain.
America doesn't have everything, let's remind ourselves of that. I think the recent years have proven we're not an island and we cannot exist as one.
I have given this a lot of thought myself. I was born and raised in NY, and threatened to move if Hillary was elected senator. I now live in CT. :)
I understand your frustration. I think Canada is a nice option. New Zealand would be great too. I am blown away by "death by firearms" statistics. Compare any U.S. state or city to Toronto or New Zealand. As usual, the U.S. is excessive.
Okay. I will stop there...before I get too worked up...
We do have a far lower incidence of death by firearms here in Canada, because we do not have that whole 'right to bear arms' things here. Police officers have them, hunters have shotguns. Criminals and gangs have the illegal firearms.
We do not and are not allowed to carry weapons, not even knives that have a blade longer than 3 or 4" (I forget which). I have never seen a real gun in my whole life, nor have most of the people I know here.
Certainly, we have issues with our politicians, and we have had our share of moronic leadership and embarrassing public figures. As long as people are human, that's going to happen. But it does not make me want to switch allegence from my country to another. I would love to be able to freely live in the U.S., but it's a climate thing, nothing to do with political competency, and I would want to keep my Canadian Citizenship. I know, that's just a bit of dreaming.
I have sympathy for you. I have American friends with whom I've had discussions about health care, guns and other important topics. Those conversations were eye-openers for me, and made me glad that I am a Canadian. If I'd been born an American, I maybe would feel differently since we tend to feel connection to the familiar.
Amy Jane - Toronto is our New York. It's the place tons of immigrants move to every year. It's not far from where I live, and it is an exciting place that I love to visit, but if you are looking solely at guns stats, T.O. (as we call it) has some that are higher than the rest of the province due to having over 3 million people now, and there are apparently, a few gangs in that part of world now, as well.
T.Keeley - If you want peace, quiet, and quaintness, then Newfoundland is a good place to go. Extremely friendly people, and a laid back seaside existence from simpler times....unless you go into the city, of course.
Great hub!
Think carefully what would happen to America if it ceased to exist. I think your vision is extremely short sighted and naive. Thankfully, we were built by people who did not have flight in their vocabulary. Maybe the empire of Democracy will fall, and if and when it does...there will soon be NO PLACE TO RUN. Do Not deceive yourself that America at least HELPS hold up the world. MY GOD I cannot fathom your thinking. Migrate if you will...but do not even imply that running away is a solution to a problem. I have no problem with those who want to live in other wonderful and beautiful places in the world.
That is not the same as leaving America to let her fall.
Thinking America is the link of worldly freedom is not ego, my fellow citizen, it is TRUTH. Mistakes and all, we're all that is standing between freedom and the terrorists who would devour every single country if they could...so who do you think is going to carry that brave fight? Australia, alone? Spain, alone? Canada, alone? Mexico, alone? Some deserted island, alone? France, alone, China, North Korea, India, Pakistan, Sweden, Russia, Germany, alone? You think they would unite to fight the battle? You think Al Qaeda is just going to disappear into the night?
America's got problems, We've always had problems. Let's be sensible and fight to save our land and country and families by voting and watching those whom we elect.
What would happen to foreign trade? Oil production? We're Global all right, do you want China who has no value of individual rights to take over the Globe? You have so much freedom, you assume it's everywhere. Did you not watch Ted Koppel's China special on TV? Do you want Germany, Russia, France, England, North Korea- assuming they too, are taken over by terrorists, to control your day, your mobility, your thoughts that you express so freely here?
You have a lot to lose. Stay in your country and pay back your gifts.
Mari Sue: I would not be leaving to let her fall. Quite frankly I do enjoy other places in the world, and if I'd not be slighted by every 'patriotic' American for wanting to live in 20 differing countries, I would if I could afford to do so. I hate politics no matter where they are, and I've said that before. I'm only slightly more fond of the parliamentary system in the UK, but not enough to be the sole reason I'd move there!
I listed that culture and the citizens were a huge, huge factor. America worship technology, while some other countries as a whole do not (but it's a trend that's growing as developing nations grow too). Refer to Neil Postman's TECHNOPOLY (how many times do I have to type it before people actually go DO it?) for more of my sentiment, please.
I've been to other countries, communist, fascist, monarchic, you name it. I like our republic. I also like England's, and I've been there. I was actually conceived in Ireland, why on earth would I NOT desire to return there someday? You take offense to someone who is probably not even offending, especially since I do believe all empires fall, all people crumble....like our lovely Canadian friend Shirley Anderson said before you: people are people, it exists everywhere. just some places less than others! Americans are benificiaries of less of this poitical pollution. We also are enormous whiners...
If someone theoretically Irish-removed-American wants someday to be a part of something he was once a part of...I do believe he has the right to, and it would not be abandoning his people to leave his country of residence. It would be abandoning his identity to leave it behind and adopt another culture's as his own when he did not want to do it in the first place.
First, to answer your question: No. When all the evaluating is done, there is nowhere else that offers the combination of freedom, opportunity, and a lot of other things that make this overall a good place to be.
Still, Congress is pretty much worthless; well, worse than worthless, really. We would be better off if they all went home for a long while. In fact, that is exactly what the founders intended; and the way they made it work back then. They didn't move to DC and stay there, passing thousands of new laws and trying to redistribute the wealth of those who are productive citizens.
I found it interesting that one commenter referred to an FDR quote: "In order to rule a Republic, one must understand the minds that created it." Interesting quote coming from the person who probably did more than any other single person to undermine the intent of the framers of our Constitution!
I am not sure how that comment by Shirley relates to your question, but it should be known that the right to bear arms was considered essential to our founders. I don't know the stats for Canada, but generally speaking worldwide, you will find that those countries (or areas within our own) where firearms are banned have more gun violence by criminals (who don't care about firearms laws) or have repressive governments. But apart from firearms laws, I would not be comfortable living in Canada for several other reasons.
I suggest that everyone who cares (fewer and fewer seem to), take some initiative to get involved and work for change. I partially addressed this in a recent blog entry on voter registration. http://encourager7.blogspot.com/
So I am going to stay here. If I stayed through the Clinton years, I guess I can live through most anything. I may, however, move out of California. It is entirely too weird here; downright scary.
John: you think very, very similalry in the realm of politic to me. I agree on FDR as well. I wouldn't mind, however, enjoying life elsewhere in the world while retaining dual citizenship. I also agree, CA is scary. I am libertarian-moderate on pretty much the entire political spectrum, so I definitely understand where you're coming from.
I don't find guns to be as big an issue as people make them to be, pro choice for guns or the opposing. Of course we as a nation apparently have decided how we feel as a whole in a recent court case.
I can also think of a few good reasons to live in Canada, but I prefer the maritime region to any others. I think it's a lovely country.
Even though I joke about moving to Canada, I probably won't, but not because I haven't thought about doing so long and hard. I have. I confess it is comforting to me to know that the Canadian border is very close (I live in Michigan) should things get ugly here.
I have a house on an acre in Michigan and a house in Indiana that I can't sell, so the likelihood that I'll be able to find a job decent enough to carry both mortgages and $1000+ a month to rent an apartment in Toronto is not good. So I probably won't leave. But as for patriotism, this country is losing me, fast. It isn't just our leaders and Congress, though both are despicable, it's the people here too.
We like to say we are the greatest country in the world and that we have all these freedoms, but the truth is, we are a country in which HALF of the populace voted for George Bush because they thought he'd be a great guy to have a beer with--that's the criteria for choosing a President now, someone you could get loaded with. So now we are where we are--how's that working for you, all you of you people who voted for this spoiled frat boy? Had any beers with him yet?
Probably not, but now we do condone torture, and we've managed to move most of the money in this country into the hands of the top 1%. We have so many black guys in prison here now that pretty soon we'll just send them straight to prison from junior high school--why waste time with the drop-out thing, just ship 'em straight into prison before they even commit any crimes. I'm being sarcastic in case you can't tell--my point is that some of our excessive love for ourselves is completely unwarranted. We have the WORST and most expensive health care system in the developed world, hands down. We don't take care of our elderly or our children. If you don't make a lot of money you are not valued, period.
So, I'll probably stay here and remain socially and political irritating. Some has to do it.
pgrundy: Thanks :)
I have yet to have a beer with W, and frankly torture is the elast of my worries. I worry more about the security of my future, my family's future most importantly. What if I'm drafted to another useless war? I don't consider fighting for something I'll never see something to defend ourselves over. Iran would be one of those cases, and I'm afraid of it...very very afraid.
I'm also afraid of the economy. We're snowballing into more and more debt that is a result of college education...something that should have gotten me a good job, right? What's the difference when I spent a ton of money on school and I'l never see it again because it was just a 'good experience' ??
Food for thought.
I feel bad for recent college graduates. My daughter graduated from Ball State two years ago and works for under $10 an hour at the library in the city where she lives. She started out at $6.50 an hour part-time and was glad to get in--she was competing against TONS of other graduates. I have two degrees and used to teach college part-time, but currently I work in a call center---I've been doing that kind of work for 7 years. I can't find anything!!!
It took me ten years to pay off my student loans, but back when I went to college it wasn't anywhere near this expensive. Now people are coming out with 20 or 30 thousand dollars in student loan debt. That's nuts. We shouldn't be doing that to our kids. If they want to go to college and can cut it, they shouldn't come out with a huge debt like that right off the bat. It's like shooting ourselves in the foot.
It's insane. My wife also works at a call centre and I am strongly leaning in that direction after working sales since last November and never earning [literally] a penny on the job. It's unbeievable what I cannot get with a college education, complete or incomplete, you know?
I've enjoyed reading the wealth of opinions from your Hub, t.keeley, and the zillions of quality comments. This is a great questions to pose to Hubbers, and I think you've done a great job at starting a discussion. I personally will probably stay in the country, though my mom threatens to move to Canada to save my brother from a possible draft (it does scare me how the government can keep you in the military once you join, and leaving is a felony). I feel that leaving wouldn't be letting the country fall because it seems that there is little anyone can do against the government to keep it from going in the direction it wants it to go. As a journalism graduate, it was my desire to raise the truth up to the public in order to encourage change, but I've been disillusioned in my years since. I do love the United States so much for the freedom and other rights (China=eek), but the costs of living are difficult to bear, and as pgrundy said, I don't plan on making a great salary anytime soon, despite being a recent graduate.
I just got an itnerview at a job that pays about 25k a year...making calls. Best I can do with basically a business 1-yr. degree and 2.5 other years in biological studies at a university. I do believe that the military is an odd sort of slavery too, but I won't go too deeply into that. They'll call you a deserter before they'll call you an honorable warrior...as if we need many of those. Disillusionment is very, very tough...especially when you're young and the American Dream is supposed to be within reach. Sad to think that dream will never become a reality.
Due to the outcome of the election? No. Due to the slow deterioration of our rights and freedoms? Yes. It crosses my mind that I may be leaving someday, sad though that makes me.
I love America...the one I remember growing up in and the one I learned about in History class. We have a beautiful land and rich history...HISTORY. Let's see what the future holds.
You can't win either way. Republican = fascism, and democrat = socialism. Most Americans are deluded, they take one side for 8 to 12 years, then get angry, vote them out and put in the other party, then 8 to 12 years we start the cycle again.
Heads they win, tales we lose, and we, as a nation have become apethetic and callused and assume that we can not controll the country anymore as it was designed.
The politicians do not care about you, me or your dog named blue. They care about revenue. The CIA has been caught importing drugs for over 30 years, and the same guys financing that are steadily building prisions to keep the people who get hooked on them. The U.S. now incarcerates more people per capita than CHINA! Go figure.
Our rights are out the window and despotism is a growing trend. Blackwater is now policing Americans with fully automatic weapons.
I could write a 50 k page book on all of the falls from grace over the last 25 years.
Let me ask a question. Has anyone ever seen in history a country that has traveled down the same road that we are now on and then return the rights back to the people once taken? No, you can not find one! America is doomed from apathy.
When the first order of Martial law is enacted, I am outta here!
There is a crisis in america due to the lack of critical thinking skills. Kids are taught in school to go for the answer ("Will it be on the test"? syndrome). We need to know how to ask questions and not accept "fill in the blank" so that we do not have to think about it. If more people were critically thinking, populist thought would not reign and politicians would be held more accountable. Instead politicians jerk people around on a leash with empty slogans that suit themselves only.
Crowder: I believe I said the same thing, though worded differently. Brava!
jcorkern: Yes, I agree, which is why I'm neither a Republican nor a Democrat. I advise as many people as possible to vote third party, especially this time around. If America wisens up, they'd vote (at worst) independent or socialist party, but I'll always prioritize the Libertarian party in their eyes if possible.
Lori: I agree with this comment most of all. There were very few things I learned in college that truly stuck with me, and the most important was critical thinking from biology and chemistry...it cannot be rivaled. Maybe that's allowed me to 'think outside the box' and has brought me a step above those who choose to blindly follow.
Hey, I'm seriously thinking of moving to Jamaica is Obama wins. If I want a crooked black man running my country, I'll go where it's cheaper to live, and there are beautiful beaches.
Hate to break it to you...if you're trying to escape "black men" Jamaica is not for you. Half the beaches are crappy and the natives generally dislike Americans (especially those who call black men crooked).
I've read or scanned most of the comments on here, and all of them represent what I've been hearing for some time now.
I think there is an answer for this "great" nation, and it will be helpful for each one of us to do a personal in-depth research of what our "Founding Fathers" wanted to accomplish when they formulated each point of our Constitution. First we need to get to know who our F.F. were, and what they stood for. Find their original writings, not some modern interpretation of what they said. Then it will be easier to understand the corrective direction this country needs to take.
I think we'll find our answer to all this is really "Outside Ourselves".
It's been too long for me not to make a comment on this one, but first, to dafla...WOW! It's obvious that Obama doesn't have your vote, but I don't believe any politician is a saint no matter what race they are so I strongly urge you not to make any election a matter of race because that sort of thinking reeks of narrowmindedness. As for your views of America t. keeley, I agree that tradition is something that is missing from a lot of American homes. I didn't say all, but I know a lot of Americans have no longstanding family, social, or even religious traditions, and that's unfortunate because traditions do a lot to bring different people together harmoniously. I've already said I'm stuck on America in spite of the criticism I have for this country, but we both have the right to voice our opinions for or against this nation which is one of the best freedoms I enjoy. One last thing is that I do believe every person in every different country should take the chance to experience life in another country and even if travelling abroad isn't possible, the local library is always a good place to start your research because the only way we can expand our minds socially and politically is to look at another's experience. Good hub.
Thanks Talent. It's refreshing to hear someone agree most of the time, even if you opt not to leave (I probably won't leave the USA either). Regardless...my ancestry dates back thousands of years in ireland and less then 150 in America...where does my interest in family history lie? Very clearly in Eire. :)
Wow... too many comments to read! All I have to say is this is a great read and should be posted because I'm sure many people feel the same way. While there are many things to love about America, there's no reason to stay if those things disappear, whatever they may be. It would just be illogical to do otherwise.
I would absolutely love to move out of this country right now because I am so sick of this pathetic nation and its so-called "leaders" who think they are so great and the sheeple who want to be taken care of with other peoples hard work. I ask myself every day how it has come to this and I come up with many answers but no solutions to fix it. Voting doesn't work. The federal government is a evil organization of crime and I hope I live to see the day that they are taken down, disected and destroyed by a more powerful entity. These sick people (the bilderbergs mainly and anyone helping their nwo agenda) think they are above everything when that could not be further from the truth. But where would I go where I can get away from a communist government? Ah, it would be nice to find an island where there were no liberals, no politically correct cry babies and no government forcing me to buy products from private companies or forcing me to pay for illegal aliens anchor babies. You can have this country, it is dead to me.
![A Short History of American Panics, Recessions, Depressions: Why Conservative Economics Can't Work (5-13-2012) [32*29]](http://s1.hubimg.com/u/4319908_50.jpg "A Short History of American Panics, Recessions, Depressions: Why Conservative Economics Can't Work (5-13-2012) [32*29]")
blogging2 Level 1 Commenter 3 years ago
Absolutely wonderful post, I don't think I could put it better myself. Thank you for responding! (PS you def get a thumbs up on this one!)