Knowing what you believe
70Why is it when you act as if youbelieve something, people act as if you don't?
Most of my rants lean to the political or religious spectra. This is no different, and my frustration lies in peoples' inability to accept something as simple as faith. Faith isn't logical, nor does it have to be. I don't claim to ever be 100% right, but I demand basic human respect and fairness. That much, regardless of your faith, rings true in a democratic society. At least it should.
What my topic of interest today is about is theology. This is etymologically speaking "the study of God." Even atheism has a theology, a belief system or study based around their god or lack thereof. Theology has facets running thru it, whether it's the study of God, his Son, the Spirit, angels, demons, etc. Theology is the basic makeup of what each person believes about the supernatural, even if they believe it doesn't exist. That in and of itself is a belief, and rightfully demands careful study even if no faith can truly be proven.
My bone to pick with everyone today is the lack of understanding of their own faith. I recently participated on a forum that achieved monumental amounts of replies. We're talking dissertations worth, and each reply was pretty much unique. This is something to rejoice about, right?
It would be if each reply was based on a different religious book. However, it (like every other forum like it) was comprised of countless "logical" replies based on each person's gut feeling of excerpts taken way out of context and manipulated to serve their own unique purpose. In the end, the argument died, and with it the hope that each person learned something. Instead, each person chose to stick to their guns, eventually proving to me why Christians are a dying breed.
We all can--and should--admit that we have a theology. It is vital to our souls. It makes up everything we believe in--or not. God is a being that not only starts wars between differing groups, but His name is often attached to everything wrong in the world. It's easy, after all, to blame the dude who is totally in control, right?
Lack of understanding of this "God" is what drags us baxck to square one and causes useless arguing. In the end, everyone believes what they want and interprets as they wish. I'd like to submit that there is objectivity in this world, that there is a foundation stronger than fundamental ideals that were passed along more than intensly debated. Debate makes us think, while indoctrination makes us limp.
Theology opens doors to our souls. If I truly understand my God I can better servew my fellow brothers on planet earth. When the Bible tells us to take care of the poor, the widowed, and the distressed, it isn't making some theoretical remark. That principle, when applied, should be followed thru in society. That is what socialism promotes. Here's the thing, though.
If Christians--or anyone for that matter--followed theological principles and loved their neighbor as themselves, socialism (or wlefare even) would never have been needed in the first place!
We've traded personal responsibility for the government. If we'd studied what God taught us in the first place, even if you dont believe in God, the world would be a better place.
Even a godless society can care for its people.
However, we are not godless. We are a nation blessed with religious freedom, even if we don't agree with each other. As a Christian, there are principles that benefit more than just my brothers in faith. Yes, I believe that Christianity in its truest and most pure form--one that follows exactly the road its creator designed for it--is the most ideal form of society.
- Love your neighbors
- Do good to your enemies
- Turn the other cheek instead of blind retaliation
- Meek inherit the earth
- Honour you parents
And the list continues. I'm not saying that this makes people perfect, nor am I saying that man doesn't need to apply principles. The Bible, principly speaking, is a manual for living that if truly followed brings a fullfilling life.
I'm not one to toss something out that I haven't meditated on for a long time. It's something I've pondered time and time again, and the reality is that most Christians I've run into do not know or read their manuals. Ever tried to fix something you've never tried fixing before? A manual is certainly helpful to aid in the process.
Our theology defines for us how we believe, it brings into focus the reality of our God. We can admit openly to each other we're not perfect, but does that solve the problems? Perfection--or lack thereof--is not an excuse to neglect studying your faith.
The principles of each faith can coexist. This is basic or common law, like murder. Often the way of salvation differs. Jews have a deifferent method to heaven than Christians, or else everyone would believe the same thing. I don't care if you believe all roads lead to heaven or not, the roads are different. Like I said, if they weren't there wouldn't be religious wars.
Know what you believe. If you do, then someone sharing their faith with you shouldn't affect you. If it does, rejoice. It's because you weren't grounded well enough in your theology to stand up to a barrage of "different information."
I like being tried by people. It makes me a better person. I wouldn't know as much as I do about Christ if people didn't debate with me, Christian or not. I am tired of these never-ending debates on issues that no one knows anything about ebcause the bulk of understanding comes from your pastor on Sunday morning.
God is bigger than labels, but we're not. We are simple creatures that need classification systems, and a systematised theology is what we all need. We need to be founded in our faith.
I study about Jesus Christ. What about you?
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hmmmmmmmm really, are yu possitive on that? Apparently you haven't read any of my hubs like you said that you would...
Never argue with mouthpieces or stupid people they will bring you down to there level and beat you with experience every time.
Good Hub
TMG
Sandra and LG: I'm a bit confused about your comments. I'm merely saying you need to nkow what you believe, whatever that belief is. LG, I have read your hubs, but I'm entitled to my opinions too. I may be wrong, and as I've said in virtually every hub, I never claim to have all the answers. But life is too complicated to not know what it is you believe.
Thanks for the input though. I'm not here to step on toes, but it's something that has crossed my mind from time to time and I decided to write on it. And no, no one on this site influenced my opinion, honestly. again the influence is an outside source.
t.keeley, sorry it was a joke because of the title. I didn't mean anything by it. xoxo. I think it was a great hub.
MY apologies, Sandra. I'm a cynic today. My wife joyfully manages to stay sane thru these days.
I also am glad you like the hub. I feel terribly if I offended you or LG, I don't mean to it just sort of happens at times.
no appologies necessary, we all have our days!!! Your poor wife though. lol. Be happy!! :)
I try to be. I really do. I am such a moody person, also I'm such a negtive-energied person. I wish I was naturally an potimist, but most of the time I'm content with not being such...
This hub was a result of me being a piss off today.
Good point you make about socialism; how there never would've been a need for it if everyone natuarally loved thier neighbor. Thing is, if you don't naturally love you neighbor, no amount of studying is going to change that. It appears you may be suggesting that the decline of society is due to a reduction in Bible study. I could be mistaken though.
Love, kindness, peace, etc. happen from the inside out. Not the other way around.
Hope this doesn't come across as an invitation for debate. Please, no. I don't want any more of that right now. I really like this hub. This is just a thought that crossed my mind.
tk- the thing I like about pessimist is how optimistic they are about pesimistic things. We all have our days, some more than others but I love pesimist because they always got the good jokes. ;)
Sorry, you didn't offend me. I know what I believe in and that is really all that matters.
Great Hub t.keeley - most religious texts when used as manuals for living steer one towards an ideal society. The trouble is, most of us are too busy trying to cast the mote out of our brothers' eyes - to have a better knowledge of what is written and to practise it would probably mean there would be no necessity to preach - or argue at all! :)
LG: that's all this hub was about, encouraging people to know what they believe.
Sandra: I'm glad I can be optimistic about pessimistic things :P
Maestro: I don't think decline in society is the lack of bible reading as much as understanding. We've traded theology (loosely used term here) for good feeling. If we don't really know what the Bible said, reading it is useless.
Shalini: preaching will always be necessary because there will always be people wo don't initiate their own learning. It's simply human nature :)
Nope that is wrong to assume that. Events will happen that will get people to learn. It's called Karma and it doesn't matter what you do becasue whatever you do it will come back to you.
There needs to be more good feelings and love towards one another-not the hatred and the greed and the fear that is professed out of the Bible for those who only see it that way. Jesus is all about Love and Loving your neighber as yourself because you neighber is yourself too as well as Jesus and God. If you didn't get that through the Bible then you are lost.period. Jesus didn't say that the Bible was the only book either-man did and when they put it together they messed it up becasue there was someone over them that wanted political power and made them change some of the things in the text as well as not including many of the books that were supposed to have been left in the book.
LG, the issue isn't karm and whether it will get people to learn. The fact is that people often don't learn from simply reading. That's why we have teachers, coaches, etc. I imagine that's sort of how you operate on your interent gathering too...and how we operate here on hubpages. People who are learned in areas inform others. That might be a part of the karma, and if it is, I want to be someone wh passes as much learning on to the next generation as I can. And I'm not just talking the Bible, although regardless of political reasons there are newer translations that are taken from older scrolls that haven't been manipulated nearly as much as some of the older translations :)
I agree with the good feelings so long as people are stretching their intellect with it. We can all agree love is far more than a feeling, however, because if it was just a feeling than marriage would be nearly impossible. Choices are made to pursue and continue love...and without wisdom to make those choices, we're as good as not knowing how to in the first place :)
Everything is karma--everything. Preaching facts and preaching lies that have been told to hisde lies and then to hide more lies is not the truth. It never will be. Peaople like to be told what to feel and what to learn and how to do it-that is being lazy. A teacher is only responsible for getting it started, not making sure that everything else is false and their way is the only way.
Do some research into Karma.just a suggestion.
I'm not saying any way is the only way. And I know what karma is, I'm just not the type to toss it around at every turn. I prefer not using labels for things as much as I can help it, which is why the word "theology" even boters me at times, even if it is simple etymology.
Do inform me on what you mean by preaching lies. I've done my research before and, while some churches are notorious for lies, the ones that aren't connected to these churches don't teach the same thing. It's sort of unfair to bunch the entirety of churches into the same corner, even though many of them deserve it :)
The bible was mistranslated in parts and it tells of a story of deception from the pagan standpoint. Now most of the traditions were taken from pgans and then the church lied to tell everyone that the pagans are the bad people......that gets told many years after the fact and even the proof of such things are truth the church covers it up-so you have one lie on top of another and on top of that yet another to cover up the others. A lie is a lie and stealing is stealing and so the church keeps that goings over and over again. No matter how many times they tell it, it isn't going to be the truth..............now do you understand?
The real spit of the churches from the One Holy one--the catholic church wasn't really about whose god was better, but more of personal veiwpoints...they all still profess the same thngs though and it is based on a lie and stealing of another's identity (for lack of a better word right now).
Ok don't call it karma, it is cause and effect.
I understand, but that's why things like the reformation happened. It's not like all of a sudden this stuff gets uncovered, for centuries man has uncovered deceit in every organised religion. Then man resets the clock and "reforms" until the deceit comes back into the figure. Cause and effect, as you said earlier. It doesn't mean it's hopeless. I am not catholic, I am possibly even anti-catholic. I find that church to repulse me, both in what they teach and their history. I agree wholeheartedly with you, yes there are many problems with churches as an organisation, but it still doesn't mean we are not to know what it is we believe.
Ungrounded faith is worse than no faith at all :)
What would you decribe ungrounded faith? Hey I am not trying to debate, I just want to learn as everyone else.
Gret blog! It is so true-so many people do not take the time to study and understand their own faith and as a result they either fall to pieces when someone questions them or they stubbornly hold on to their own beliefs without caring to listen to anyone else's beliefs or opinions.
in my opinion lack of understanding breeds intolerance and hate
Ungrounded faith would have been me growing up. If you never read my conversion hub, it's a good one :)
Ungrounded faith is being indoctrinated, sold basically, with lies or truth. It doesn't matter because the faith is unapplicable, you never take time to understand what it is that you "believe" (or your parents believe, in my case!).
theominai--
thanks, and yes, lack of knowledge can breed intolerance. Tolerance however doesn't always solve problems. Often it's the ability to understand people--farther than mere toleration--that allows us to truly coexist.
Thank You. My parent's never pushed us to go to church or learn any religion. My sister and I went on our own. While very young though we went to a Welsh Baptist church until we moved and then we didn't go to church until my sister and I were in highschool. So we got to form our own opinions and learn from a fresh perspective--not one that was, sorry to use the word, brainswashed into us.
Brainwashing happens! It's real and it's here! I can relate perfectly to your problem with it, too :)
Interesting hub. What exactly triggered your pessimism when you wrote it? I am intrigued because overall you never seem like a pessimistic person when I read your hubs.
Oh I'm definitely a pessimist in general, but I tend to write with out as much bias as possible. I suppose this seeped thru that filter or something, but I definitely mean it. I'm just tired of ingorance. I mean that word in its direct denoatative definition. People just don't know what on God's green earth they do or don't believe in. And it's not anything from hubpages that got my goat, it was a mix of 500 facebook "friends" in post-election 'god's judgment' mode and countless forums and the 'christians' that are part of them.
All I'm saying is, study. That's it, just study. I don't give a flying rat's arse what you study, but God knows people in this nation haven't even read simple classic literature. I couldn't get half of our citizens to name for me a single Sherlock Holmes case, I couldn't get 50% of professing Christians to tell me what exactly it is they believed, and neither could I get someone to tell me who Homer was. !#@$, they'd tell me it was the Simpsons dude.
I mean, am I the ONLY person who's read every Holmes story, everything Dickens wrote, virtually everything Twain wrote, All of C.S. Lewis' fiction works (and I do mean ALL), everything but one of Tolkien's works, basically every major classic literature short story, poem, novel, or essay out there???
Please tell me I'm not! I'm just tired of iPods, gameboys, TV, Blueray, hybrids, and the radio. When did everything that made us better go down the tube?
Just an aside: if you've read C S Lewis and Tolkein, I'm sure you'll love Philip Pullman's Dark Materials trilogy too!
...amd maybe pensive as in Milton's Il Penseroso may be better than pessimistic?? :)
Pensive...perhaps :P
I'll check into that. I know of Pullman and I've heard great reviews. Dark Materials sounds familiar, but even I haven't hit that many books in my life. I seriously was made to read at least a book a week growing up, and during school I'd tackle a ton of classics in a semester. I guess it's a good thing, but it wasn't fun for me then. I'd enjoy things like that now more though, which is why I'm returning to them in recent history
Hello there TKeeley. I hope you and Agvulpes spent a nice evening swilling beers over on my hub last night. At least he told me you did. So hopefully that improved your mood some.
In reading your hub and the subsequent comment thread, what is coming through to me is this. You start with the premise of being frustrated that people cannot articulate and defend their personal faith because they have not done sufficient research and analysis on its teachings. People are relying on others (interpreters) to feed them information, which too often is incorrect, propaganda and brainwashing. But upon closer examination, the broader context of your disgust is for the decline of critical thinking in general. It's not just that people today can't intelligently express the basis of their faith. It is that they have not read important classics -- including but not limited to the Bible.
I believe it is entirely possible to be possessed of a deep faith without necessarily being a Bible scholar. The very nature of faith is that it defies logic. It is not rational. It is a leap into the realm of the spirit rather than the mind. Whereas (IMO) Theology is the study of God.
The best parallel I can come up with at this hour is this. Two people are looking at a piece of art in a museum. The man studied Art History and can speak intelligently about the painting and declares it an inferior rendering. The woman admittedly doesn't know much about art but says, "I know what I like and I don't like this at all." Both viewers do not like the painting. Does the fact that the man has the background and language to defend his position make it more valid than the woman's. If the woman had liked the painting would that make her wrong?
Does what I'm trying to say here make any sense at all?????
It doesn't make her wrong, but is it enough to just pass thru life without understanding what that life is about?
Critical thinking isn't about faith. Faith isn't suppsoed to have reason, and many atheists argue it doesn't. Yet people still believe in faith. We still base our eternity on whether there is...or ISN'T...a God. Regardless of that fact, theology is there. We study God in some manner, whether it's the lack of that god or the fact that we just do or don't believe in it...
You still have a belief in something. That belief is defined by your idea of whatever it is you believe in.
It's understanding more than just a basic faith that allows us to dig deeper into our souls...sorry, but the great minds of the past: Marx. Nietzche. Hitler, Muhammed, Buddha, Freud, Einstein, Watts, Tesla, Jesus Christ...they all were defined by something. All these men were learned, they weren't just content with knowing "just enough" to make a judgment and define an entire philosophy.
Does that make sense?
Yes, what you say does make sense. The men you mention, the "great minds of the past" are the ones we need to be reading and learning from. But these are the inspirers. There will always be people who believe because they think it's the right thing to do. Not everyone is raised to question and analyze. Not everyone even has the intellectual capacity to do so.
I am reminded of a like from a children's catechism (or maybe it's a song): "Jesus loves me this I know, for the Bible tells me so." For that child, that may be as defined as faith can go. For many adults -- who for whatever reason -- choose not to deepen their understanding of their relationship with God -- they may be content with reciting a prayer. If they truly, truly believe what they are saying, is the following not a sufficient definition?
The Apostles' Creed
I believe in God,
the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ,
his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived by the power
of the Holy Spirit
and born of the Virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died,
and was buried.
He descended into hell.
On the third day he rose again.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again
to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting. Amen.
People are incredibly misinformed about history, which irks me as many happen to claim they are experts. I have studied Political Science and history extensively in my degree, so I have a moderate/liberal viewpoint that clashes with the more conservative trends of Republicans. I will not lie, not all socialism is bad and we do need more of a European model of taxes, health care, and other services. I have statistics to back up my point of view, but someone from a conservative viewpoint will not agree with me. However, I still believe my viewpoint is valid or I would not believe it.
So I can see the irritation. I love South Pacific history and Pitcairn Island history, but very few people seem to know about the history of those places. I read Twain and C.S. Lewis in college, but my honest opinion is they are not my favorites. Also, I did try to read Tolkien and I just did not enjoy it. Sometimes people have their own interests in reading and may prefer newer works, such as writers of autobiographies, which are a great way to learn history. I am such a historian LOL. Lately I have been on autobiography and biography mode, so sometimes peoples' interests are not convergent. I read Dickens and did not enjoy him either. Whenever someone speaks of a video game I want to just leave the room, I have no interest in these. Once my optometrist said a certain eye test was like playing a video game, so I told her she was telling the wrong person since I do not enjoy these.
Some of my favorite classics include Austen and Hemingway, but I also love newer novelists such as Marsha Mehran, Celestin Vaite, and they will be considered classics one day. Just because something is not a classic today does not mean it will not be tomorrow, this is ever evolving and changing. It just has to do with difference of opinion in reading from time to time, but I do see what you are saying about the YouTube culture. I do not even own a ipod myself, so I never understood the big deal about it. Not that there is anything wrong with owning one, it just seems gadgets have created a cultural disconnect.
Literary classics mean different things to different people. As someone that almost minored in English Literature I can assure you different professors even argued about who was a classic, and who was not.
I'm not quite sure about your position here. What is the more (most) important thing? Just having faith, in whatever, or having faith in something (someone) specific?
Hi TK - commenting first on a comment - no, you're not the only person who's read most of the literary classics. Now, to the hub. I enjoyed reading it and agree with a lot of what you say, but will take issue with your stance on faith. You're right in saying it isn't logical. By definition it is an 'unjustified belief'. But I don't agree with you that it is necessary for the human soul. I prefer the idea of understanding as much as we genuinely can and by all means retaining a sense of wonder at what might lie beyond our understanding, but not deciding that we know what we cannot know. Because that 'leap of faith' closes off a part of the mind. My position on this is here http://hubpages.com/hub/Freedom-from-Belief
Brother, this is what pushed me away from any type of religion in the first place. Demand? Or I better believe in this or that or I'm dammed to hell? These are the type of positions that push people away from any faith. God bless you and what ever it is you or anybody else believe in. Just look at the faith where people believe so much, that they are willing to blow themselves up. May God bless them and their victims.
Loosen up people. Just love one another, do what is right, don't judge because one believes in this and another believes in that . I have a profound faith. What it is, doesn't really matter. What matters to me is what I do with it. You see when I make that final Comment, my creator is not going to make his judgement on me, based on what you did in my life. I will be judged on what I did. So what matter, is that I keep my side of the street clean. Yours is all on you...
Peace, Love,Life, Health, Happiness and Freedom to all... JosephDiego
This isn't about judging or forcing people to believe--anything.
Joseph, did you even read this hub or the comments thereafter? I mean, I make it clear that all I'm annoyed by is peoples' lack of knowledge of wat they believe. Geez, this is another prime example of taking something drastically out of context. I "demand" that people who believe something know what it is that they "claim" they "believe."
That's it. No strings attached, no bullshite added.
Paraglider: I rememebr that hub froma while back. I would submit that you believe that freedom from "belief" is your route. You still hold to that "doctrine", if you will. That's how I see it, but I'm probably wrong.
TK - You're right - you are probably wrong ! I know that I try to dispense with belief. It's mere semantics to to try to turn that into a belief system.
But who the Hell are you, To demand anything? God forgive us if we don't poses the Knowledge that the mighty "You" Demand. Just because you believe one thing and others have different feelings or faiths it doesn't make it wrong or right. It just makes it a different opinion.
Remember the Lilliputians, in Gulliver's travels? The were having a war because on group should open the egg from the end and the others opened the egg from the side. Is it really that Important?
Brother you are a highly educated man, I don't know much of anything, I never even finished the ninth grade. But one thing I do know is, people are not perfect. Most of us talk a lot of shit, including me. But getting annoyed about anybody Else's Bull-shit is very unnecessary. The only Bull- shit I worry about is my own. I have learn that the more you expect of others the more I better expect to be disappointed!
Peace, Love, Happiness and Acceptance ... JosephDiego
Once again, Joe, I'm not telling you what to believe, Nothing I've written even implies that. I'm not here telling you to even believe, but dang straight better KNOW what it is you do believe. That's ALL this is about. don't start tossing accusations around towards things that don't even apply, please. Peace is great and I'm not trying to upset anyone. Just understand that ignorance to what you believe is what causes dogma in the first place. I'm pretty sure my case is well stated. If you still have a problem with it, you're reading waaaay too much into it.
If anything is true, I think we're on the same plane it's just not as obvious to either of us yet :)
Kool Brother, either way. God Bless you...
You have a good message.....
Glad we're straight (or at least seem to be). I'm sorry to ear you only finished the 9th grade, but you seem to be an able and functioning societal member, so that's a good thing ;) I hope to see more of you on my hubs and hear more of your input. You have a great grasp of reality and hope that you use that here especially!
Great hub!
TJ ;0)
Just a thought...when you look back at your Irish roots there is a lot a depression and Irish curses etc...Murphys law while funny in many ways..has its roots in a deeply hurt nation that has been cursed for many centuries...How do I know ..well as I began to draw closer to God he brought many things from my past and my ancestors to light that had held me in bondage for years and I never knew it...when i left Ireland I was not in any rush to go back...but now that all the spiritual unhealthy ties have broken..I,m now free to see it through Gods loving eye`s and more importantly when I cross the thresh hold of heaven..i will do so as a healthy Irishman who has proudly used up all his talents that his father God has given him and experianced the true meaning of why Jesus came not just to save us but set us free from the bobdage in our minds!!!!
Love in Jesus Mike :0)
sandra rinck 3 years ago
Are you sure about that? lol. :)